Pursuing the my personal writeup on the youngsters off Llywelyn Fawr and Joanna as well as the answers they obtained, I seemed once more through the genealogical users about Gwladus Ddu. While it’s real, just like the multiple genealogists point out, you to regarding the absence of chosen research one way or another, the brand new title of the mother of Gwladus Ddu need to will always be ‘unknown’, I discovered no reason to change my achievement one their unique mommy is Joanna and never Tangwystyl.
She left no issue of the Alexander II
You to definitely after that origin on the subject of its children ‘s the following conceptual from the ‘Kings and you will Queens regarding Britain’ an authoritative book, written by Oxford College or university Press, web page 106:
‘Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth, b.1173, child out-of Iorwerth Drwyndwn (‘Flatnose’) and Marared, daughter regarding Madog ap Maredudd; acc. eastern Gwynedd 1195; married Joan, illegitimate daughter away from King John, 1205; issue: Gruffudd (illegitimate), Dafydd, Gwenllian, Helen, Gwladus, Margaret, Susanna; passed away eleven April 1240; buried: Aberconwy.’
First, i’d like to spend tribute to help you Sharon. Their particular lookup to possess ‘HBD’, ‘Falls brand new Shadow’ and you will ‘Brand new Reckoning’, achieved till the regarding the net, are truly a good. Very nearly what you she’s printed in you to trilogy stands romantic test now.
To prove that it’s just me one thinks so, allow me to price one to genealogist who’s a beneficial lover out of Sharon: “I am most attracted to Sharon Kay Penman’s guides. As they aren’t strictly biographical, I feel more comfortable counting on her work to ‘submit this new blanks’ (because of the quantity of search she definitely added to their unique guides), than in in fact mentioning certain genealogical sources that we came all over in my lookup (I am aware everyone come across present by doing this). So you’re able to anyone who has not yet read their particular work, I recommend it really extremely, particularly if you need to get a feel for what lifetime was particularly 800 years ago.”
Adopting the issues presented of the Beth, Suzanne and Exotic specifically, We embark on evaluating the fresh new name of Joanna’s mommy (labeled hereafter, to possess easier source due to the fact ‘Clemence’ maybe not ‘Clementia’) using an event for the so you’re able to-be-queen John. Once powering up of several blind alleys, generally compliment of seeking to reconcile the newest chronology of one towards the most other, You will find compensated on which comes after. I do not say that everything i wrote is actually decisive in just about any figure or mode, and truth is that individuals will probably not be sure out-of their unique term.
(a) The brand new illegitimate Joanna, child from “Clemence,” is definitely born regarding wedlock –– as is turned-out by the Honorius III’s decree claiming their genuine when you look at the April 1226, whether or not instead of bias into the queen otherwise realm of The united kingdomt (we.e., offering their particular no claim to that particular throne). The latest decree, that has been transcribed regarding the unique, unpublished Register out-of Honorius III (Reg. Vat. 13, fol. 122 ), claims inter alia you to definitely “Johannes Rex anglie solutus te genuerit de soluta,” and that, I am informed, means “King John of England, whenever solitary , fathered you because of the a single woman.”
This step became more cutting-edge than simply I would provides believe you’ll be able to!
It indicates Joanna might have started produced zero after than just 1189 whenever John hitched Isabella of Gloucester. Their unique mommy, “Clemence” is actually probably French or Norman, since facts in the patent goes out of John’s rule signifies that Joan is brought regarding Normandy to The united kingdomt in December 1203, to prepare getting relationship so you can Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth (look for below). Joanna died inside bu web sitesine atlayД±n the Feb 1237.
(b) John’s legitimate child Joan, from the Isabella regarding Angouleme (hitched so you’re able to John from inside the 1200 at many years several!), was created at the Gloucester towards 22 July 1210 (comprehend the Tewkesbury Annals regarding the Rolls Show, vol. thirty six.i, p. 59; the latest Worcester Annals, ibid., vol. thirty six.iv, p. 399; as well as the Rotuli Litterarum Patencium for John’s Rule, pp. 124, 143). Here is the Joan just who next partnered Alexander II away from Scotland and you will she passed away in the 1238, particular months immediately after Joanna (this might take into account a few of the frustration apparent involving the a few feminine).